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Transcript of: "Sibel Edmonds Breaks Down the Turkish False Flag Leak"


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0:01 James Corbett: Welcome, friends. James Corbett here of CorbettReport.com. Today is the 1st of April 2014. Here in Japan it is April Fool's, but back in the United States it's still the 31st of March, where are joined on the line today by BoilingFrogsPost.com editor and founder Sibel Edmonds. And of course, those of you in the listening audience should need no introduction to her and her work, or to our recent conversations on many different topics, including a conversation that we held back in January of this year on the subject of Erdoğan's fall from grace there in Turkey. As a former globalist golden boy who is definitely on the outs with the globalist jet set these days and is looking particularly beleaguered as his international backers start to back away from him.

And this is very interesting: we talked, for example, in that conversation in January -- which, I will put the link in the show notes from this interview so you can go back and listen to again -- one of the things that was talked about was how part of this distancing of the globalists from Erdoğan came in the form or Erdoğan being left holding the bag in Syria, as seeming to be the one person out there who was continuing to have big support for what was happening in Syria, even as the rest of the globalists started to back away from those plans.

And, lo and behold: here we are in late March, early April, and lo and behold, this new recording has leaked online -- which, again, I'll put the link in the show notes for those of you who haven't seen it -- showing high-ranking Turkish officials conspiring to commit a false-flag attack to blame on al-Qaeda in order to justify further military aggression in Syria. A very interesting turn of events, and of course Sibel Edmonds, an absolute wealth of knowledge on these subjects. So it is good to get you here to get your take on what's happening. Let's put this into perspective for people. What, exactly, has happened, and what does this mean in terms of Turkish internal politics and also what's happening in Syria?

1:56 Sibel: Well, as far as what it means: I don't think it means much. As far as what we have in our hands, we really don't know. Because the four most important questions are not answered, and with this tape. One is, who did the recording, -- which, we have a pretty good guess -- what was recorded -- and I'll get to that in a second -- and why it was recorded and released, and when it was recorded, and when it was released. Well, we know when it was released: It was recorded a long time ago, and as far as who recorded this, we have a pretty good idea that it is... it's going to be Gülen, Fethullah Gülen, imam Gülen-related network insiders: the ones who have penetrated the Turkish military, Turkish police and, of course, as we can see, the office of Prime Minister. [laughs] Very successfully.

And also, the other important thing is with this, authentication of the tape. Now, there are two ways of authenticating, or there are two grounds. One is the voice. And it hasn't been authenticated, but I would say they are authentic: it's pretty obvious there. But I listened to the tape several times, and I looked at the transcript as well, and to me, what seems very important here is the transcript. And when you listen to the tape, you see a lot of inconsistencies, which points to this was not recorded during one meeting, and with those individuals present. It looks and it sounds like a patchwork: meaning, much of this conversations were taken from various contexts during different times, and then they were connected together and put together in this tape.

And they have done a pretty shoddy job with that. [laughs] Obviously; they maybe rushed it -- I don't know, they haven't done a good job. But this recording and the transcript, it's not coming from one particular meeting. And it's very easy to do, when... you can take sentences out of different contexts from different times, and put it together, you can arrive at a totally different, whole different meaning. So that hasn't happened, but again, from looking at it, I'm not a forensic expert, but I did work for the FBI and I did do translations on tapes like this, live or pre-recorded, and this does not sound authentic in terms of being recorded during the same time.

And as far as why it was released, again: that is pretty obvious here. it was not released to increase public awareness, or for altruistic reasons. They released this tape a few days before the local elections -- very highly strategic, sensitive elections in Turkey. So the intent is extremely important, to see what was the intention behind releasing these tapes. And the intentions are not good. [laughs] Or it's not for the public knowledge, or because there are some people who are concerned about a war with Syria. It has nothing to do with any of these reasons. They intent is pure and simple: they wanted to effect the... influence the elections result. So, that's for that.

5:11 And another important thing that, for me, shows that this has been highly edited and tampered with, the recordings: again I'm very familiar with discussions that take place within the diplomatic communities and various governmental entities as part of my work with the FBI. And especially with Turkey, there would never, ever be such a meeting -- long meeting -- on this kind of a topic without the mentioning of, minimum of a hundred times, at least every other... in every other sentence, mentioning of Pentagon, NATO, the United States.

Because as we know, Turkey is a part of the NATO -- Turkey is a member of NATO -- and of course Turkey was stopped, later in this whole process with Syria, from going, even, at it alone: because they were already bogged down in this whole mess with Syria that was completely crafted by the United States, of course; Pentagon. That, itself, will tell you that that was sanitized, and the tapes were heavily sanitized.

And why would they sanitize the parts that have to do with the United States and NATO and their positions? Well, of course that's because the actors that are involved, that did the recording and released it -- this is Fethullah Gülen, which is completely under CIA's management: Fethullah Gülen has been with Langley, CIA, since 1997, has been working -- it's the operation of the CIA and NATO, Gladio B, that we have spoken about.

So as we see, they are basically protecting their masters by sanitizing the tapes from all the information or conversations or points made that would have had the Pentagon or the United States or NATO. But I can guarantee that there would never be a meeting like this -- a topic like this -- where you won't hear several times, dozens of times, "Pentagon," "well, NATO..." or particular people within the NATO. It just doesn't take place, because it doesn't. It hasn't, and it won't, and it doesn't.

7:29 James: Well, just to add to the confusion of all of this that's taken place, the initial release was, I believe, labeled as part one, implying that there would a part two to this. And the intervening days we've seen another version of this conversation, a longer version that contains some different parts and more to the transcript released. And we just went over that off-air before we started this conversation, and it does contain some mention of America, but nothing particularly substantial. So again, I think the question of where that NATO and Pentagon and intimate references are is still a very valid one. Although it does even, I think, further raise the question of where did this come from in terms of how many different conversations have been stitched together, why was this released in multiple parts, what was the intent of all of this. Now...

8:19 Sibel: Just the fact that you have different versions of the same tape, for example.

8:23 James: Mm-hmm.

8:23 Sibel: That, alone, speaks volumes.

8:24 James: Exactly right. Well, the way, of course, that this was reported on in the American mainstream media was to say that there was a release of a conversation talking about Syrian war plans, and that this has embarrassed the Turkish government, and thus the crackdown on Twitter and YouTube in Turkey. But as you pointed out, there has been, really, no significant consequence to the release of this tape. That, in fact, the elections proceeded as planned and didn't have much of an effect.

8:55 Sibel: Correct. And again, that is due to several reasons. First of all, as I said, the significance of this tape for Turkey is not much. It should be, to some degree, but again: what overrides the significance is, Turkish people are not stupid. They know who did this and why they did this, and they are playing very smart, saying, "That's a different topic. We are going for the local elections." And the second reason we see the results of the elections being as such -- they didn't even lose much in terms of percentage, AKP -- is that there are -- there has been, really -- no real alternatives in Turkey.

I mean, you're looking at Tansu Çiller and Mesut Yılmaz: and during this era, of course, Susurluk happened, and we have discusses Susurluk a lot. And you look at the number of scandals these people had and the amount of money -- I mean, hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars of money -- that they actually took away from the public. In fact, with Tansu Çiller, she and her husband took the money -- hundreds of millions of dollars -- from a bank, and they brought it to the United States.

This was when ex-Prime Minister Tansu Çiller became a US citizen. [laughs] She was given Green Card, and then was involved with IMF. And they were wanted: her husband was wanted in Turkey -- this is the ex-Prime Minister -- for embezzlement. They set up this phony bank, they got hundreds of millions of dollars, they took the money, they shut down the bank -- and this is the people's, regular people's money -- and they flew to the United States of America. [laughs] And they were handed Green Cards. And even though they were wanted, nobody handed them over. Lo and behold: a few years later, she came back and became the Prime Minister with her fugitive husband.

So,Turkey is used to scandals like that. Turkey is used to having politicians, parties like that. So if you look at... relatively speaking, you know how we always talk about the lesser of the two evils? Compared to what we have had within the recent history of Turkish politics, even the scandals with the financial things were not to that level of what we have previously. And again, relatively speaking, between this current administration and the previous ones, they have done far more positive things in the country than the previous one.

Again, I'm not trying here to pain Erdoğan as a saint, or someone really good. I'm just painting the picture that what Turkish people see, what they have had in the past, who are the alternatives today on the ground, how this administration has been for over ten years, OK? And when they look at these things and the party, well, they go there and they cast their vote accordingly. And that's exactly what they did, and that's exactly what I was expecting. Which puts a huge blow to the operations of CIA through Fethullah Gülen.

And it's not over yet, actually: we are going to see things heating up much, much more, and escalate from here on. As we know, the Turkish government, Erdoğan's government, just confiscated and nullified Fethullah Gulen's passport, green passport, that was supposedly obtained illegally. So we have that, and this week the Turkish government is going to reply for a formal request of extradition of this man, Fethullah Gülen, from the United States. But meanwhile, this... again, politics is never simple. it's really complicated and you have all sorts of smokes and mirrors.

A lot of other things are coming into play. For example: we have had the developments with Ukraine. Now, with Ukraine developments, the United States -- that included the CIA -- they have, now, reason to keep things kind of pacified. They don't want to, at this point, piss off Erdoğan. They don't want to rattle things too much -- even though that's their endgame; that's what they want to get -- because the United States, Europe: they need Turkey in anything that may develop with Russia on this Ukraine issue. Well, Turkey: NATO member; but look at, strategically, on the map where Turkey is. And Turkey is positioned strategically and has power as far as the Black Sea goes. Anything goes through that sea has to go through Turkey.

So at this point, there is a possibility that they would try to kind of... try to pacify Erdoğan by not ruffling his feathers too much. And we'll see what's gonna happen with Gülen, because right now, with Ukraine, they want Turkey on their sides here in the United States and EU. And another interesting thing that took place was this recent visit to Israel, and the fact that we are seeing from the Israeli media that they are trying to normalize the relationship with Israel. And that is kind of, a little bit, backtracking by Erdoğan.

So behind the scenes, we may have this situation that there are lots of things going on: compromises, you know? You kind of bring your tone down on Israel -- which we know that, I mean, our politics here in the United States heavily influenced by Israel -- we try to do some things in terms of maybe hold back Gulen's operations for a while, we want your full support with Ukraine situation -- which we are, even, seeing with the case of Tatars there in.. over there: because we have read and heard that some Turkish special operations military units have already gone there and are operating there, because they're saying, "Well, Tatars are Turkish-heritage," and they have the reason to go there and try to help them out, see what the situation is. So, very complicated: you have Ukraine on the one hand, and then you have what's happening with Fethullah Gülen and CIA and Erdoğan.

And, of course, we also have the recent developments here in the United States, where they are now saying -- the administration, Obama -- that they may want to give some portable missiles to the rebels. So we are going back again on Syria. We had this pause situation, of course, with Russia stepping in; then we had a new developing Ukraine situation; now Syria's escalating again, and of course we have all this mess. And again: Turkish strategic position. And again, it's the Kurds. It's a blessing, because Turkey can use its strategic position to gain much more power and have a say, you know? And stand up and say, "We don't want this, because look: we are in this position, as far as strategically is concerned." However, they.. Turkey.. Syria's up north from Syria, right there on the border; and you have Ukraine, Black Sea region: it would be a tremendously awful mistake for the United States at this point -- at this particular point, right now -- to piss off Erdoğan or escalate their operation.

So, we may see some reversal. We may see some discussion on Fethullah Gülen: are they going to hand him over? -- which, they're not gonna do that. He may end up going to New Zealand, and there is a discussion [laughs] on that. As we said, he's just a symbol. The guy's senile. He hasn't, even, been giving interviews. He's, like 80 years old. It's not Fethullah Gülen: it's the network, which is totally under the direction and management of Langley's, the CIA.

16:46 James: Well, what you say there makes a lot of sense. And certainly if this recent recording didn't source from the Gülenists, then who did it source from? I think we have to see that. And, of course, who are the Gülenists? As you say, they are puppeteered by the CIA. And that, most obviously, in the form of Gülen himself being brought to Langley before he was shipped off to Philadelphia. So I think that all is of a piece. But the part of that that I don't understand is, why would the CIA release a recording that talks about a potential false flag operation to start a cause for war with Syria, thereby undermining the potential of using such a strategy in the future? Wouldn't it seem to undermine their own potential war strategy there?

17:30 Sibel: At this point, no. I think because we still have the pause on Syria. I mean, the Syria case is not over, but I don't believe they want... it would be a nightmare for the United States and NATO if Turkey were to decide to go at it alone, currently, at this time. Believe me: six weeks from now, things may change. We don't know what's gonna happen with Ukraine, and we don't know what's gonna happen with our relations with Russia. But at this stage, when there's so much mess happening there -- I mean, we have South China Sea: that is not as escalated, but it is a little bit more in there -- but we have so much taking place with Russia and Ukraine there.

The last thing, right now, the United States wants is Turkey going at it alone. Then it's going to... what's gonna happen with NATO and the United States? They are going to be doing something that they don't want to do right now. As I said, they want to do it, they are set to do it with Syria: Syria is not over, and we are gonna be doing it to Syria as we have done elsewhere: it was just this pause. But, they don't want to do it right now. It may change, because as we see, with Congress here, with Obama here, they are back into supporting, overtly, the rebels again: including given them, sending them the portable missiles. But even a few weeks makes a big, big difference as far as military, intelligence operations strategies are concerned, and they don't want some hot-blooded Turkish military go in there at it alone.

So, maybe that is, in a way, a pause. Because a false-flag attack like that would totally sway the public opinion in Turkey. I mean, overnight everybody would be saying, "We want to go into Syria. We want to nuke Syria. We want to just... commit genocide." It's... you how how it is, you know, with 9/11: it's no different. And they don't want it, at this point. But Turkey: the public's opinion, I hope it has been a bit, that much influenced by the tape. Meaning, if there was such an attack, they have to pause and think about it, and say, "Was it real?" You know, "Maybe they didn't learn a lesson..." -- or many countries; I doubt, though -- from 9/11. But with this case, with the tapes being released, at least that scenario, they could play it: and that would be the false-flag attack. At this point, while the things are fresh.

On the other hand, I just read this morning that there was... that one of the missiles that came through the border and blew up the mosque, and there was like one lady or two people casualties, Turkish, and it came from Syrian border: of course we don't know which side in Syria did it. But the previous big incidents with casualties in Turkey: initially, Turkey wanted to use that against Assad's government. But, lo and behold: intelligence leaked, other things became public, and we found out that it was actually the rebels that caused that, and the incident and casualties. So that kind of pacified and said, "Well, we can't do that." And I believe that was when the recording took place. If I were to have a wild guess, to say, "Yeah, well, we've got to do it in such a way that it would be completely blamed on the Syrian government, and take care of this."

A lot of things got rattled: it was not Turkey's decision with what's happening in Syria. In fact, the relationships were pretty cozy and warm with Assad. And of course, you and I reported this: Boiling Frogs Post broke the first stories in the US about the fact that US military in Turkey, in İncirlik base, they were training Syrian rebels there. They were training, and they'd been doing it since May, 2012. And when we did that, people started attacking us, saying... well, reported it before anyone else did: months before anyone else did.

And so Turkey got dragged into it, and then, of course, later the United States backed off with what took place with Russia, and that put Turkey -- and it still has put Turkey -- in a really bad situation. Because it also has rattled the balance and situation with the Syrian Kurds. While Turkey has had lots of problems and interactions -- negative, also -- with the Kurds in Iraq, northern Iraq, they haven't had much problem from the Syrian side. Now, with everything happening -- with Assad's regime being in the position it is today, and all these different factions -- which includes the Kurdish faction, which is Turkey's big problem: Turkey considers it a huge problem today, still -- we have that situation that now Turkey has to deal with. And they're like, "How we're gonna deal with this part?" And this is why there may be discussions about the false-flag attacks and going at it alone.

And again, any of these discussions would involve, dozens and dozens of times, of referring to individuals within the NATO and Pentagon and the Obama administration. I have not, during those times -- thousands of tapes -- I have never listened to any conversation involving anything related to the military in Turkey. Not even, only, war: anything that did not involve, heavily, Pentagon and the State Department and the administration -- and, to a certain degree, of course, NATO. That's one of the reasons I'm telling you these tapes were heavily edited, censored. They were heavily altered, tampered with, and it's not what it seems to be.

23:17 James: Very interesting, indeed. And I think one of the most interesting parts of this is that even though it wasn't released for altruistic purposes, and even though it was heavily redacted, it could still have a good effect on at least getting people to question, in the event of the wake whatever tragedy comes along. So hopefully...

23:33 Sibel: Absolutely, absolutely.

23:35 James: Hopefully we can [xx]

23:35 Sibel: I would call that a positive externality. You know, you have negative? This is positive externality. No matter what, it has nothing to do with elections or anything, it put it within people's consciousness: both at home in Turkey, but also abroad. So, that's a good thing. And saying that, even if that was going to take place, it's not going to: just for the fact that it was released -- though that was not the intention of releasing these tapes -- because of: uh, that scenario's not gonna work. [laughs] That hand was played before.

24:09 James: All right. Sibel, I know you have to get going. Just one last thing that I wanted to ask you about.

24:13 Sibel: Sure.

24:13 James: You... just another move on this chessboard: you brought my attention to an article: "Charges launched against Gülen gang intel chief," talking about charges that Erdoğan is bringing against Ali Fuat Yılmazer, the intelligence chief behind the investigations which preceded the Ergenekon and other trials. Is this a significant part, or is this just more of the back-and-forth between Gülen and Erdoğan?

24:34 Sibel: It's very significant. It's, actually, huge. It is actually far more significant than even the tapes. That's very important: because again, a lot of people may not be familiar with Ergenekon, and we don't have the time to bring them up to date with that. They should go back and look at what has been happening for several years in Turkey, when the Erdoğan administration went after high-level generals, people within the military, some journalists, and started rounding them up, accusing them of this operation -- that is most likely true -- to... the operation by these ultrasecularists, ultranationalists, to overthrow the Erdoğan administration because it's Islamic and replace it by something more ultranational, militaristic administration. So, they've been putting them in jail.

This has never happened, nothing like this has ever happened in Turkey. And, well, this was initially being done by Fethullah Gulen's advice, order, together with Erdoğan administration. And with everything happening with Fethullah Gülen, Erdoğan has been removing -- has been trying to remove -- himself from this whole scenario by putting it on the intelligence chief and Gülen movement and the prosecutors, and saying, "These people did it: I had nothing to do with it, because we have these kind of separations..." you know, how we have, supposedly, the separations of power. That's very, very important.

Not only that: we have had several signals from Erdoğan saying that most likely these people will be released, that they're going to drop charges. Because when you're cornered the way Prime Minister Erdoğan has been -- or was before this election, in this situation -- not only you have Fethullah Gülen, but you have other people who have equally strong reasons for wanting to get rid of you: like, ultrasecularists, the ultranationalists. I mean, it gets to be a pretty scary situation. So, politically and strategically, the first thing you would want do is, you try to maybe kiss up to one of the sides, try to get them calmed down, and deal with one enemy rather than dealing with two or three enemies, and start being surrounded by them.

So this is the way, I guess, Erdoğan is trying to isolate Gülen and the Langley's movements and operations in Turkey from the ultranationalists. What is the first thing he would do? He would back off from Ergenekon charges and operations that were targeting these generals, releasing these generals, saying, "OK, you know what? We're gonna back off. And you back off a little bit here."

There were even these talks that Gülen was going to forge some alliance with the ultranationalists ultrasecular to go after Erdoğan -- which would be absolutely crazy, insane -- but there were such talks. In fact, one of the candidates there was supported, in the back ground, by Fethullah Gülen. And a bunch of other things came out, that they were trying to... not the entire CHP -- which is "Ce He Pe" [IPA: "d͡ʒe he pe"] -- most of them, or their supporters, would be outraged -- absolutely outraged. I mean, look at the concept: ultrasecular ultranationalists joining forces with Fethullah Gülen: Islamic mullah, imam. Well, because desperate situation calls for desperate measures. And, I mean, it happens: you see it in Europe, too, when some coalitions -- really questionable coalitions -- are informed to go after whoever is the incumbent.

Well, if that was going to be the case here, and I believe this is one way Erdoğan trying to neutralize that thing: "Well, you know what? We back off." And of course, the sacrificial lamb here was the intelligence chief, who actually said, "No, that's not true: the administration was part of this." But not very strongly. you know, usually behind the scenes they make an agreement: can you please be my fall guy. You know, we had G. Gordon Liddy [laughs] for example going... but yeah: so you have similar situation with that. But that is very, very important.

And what's going to follow -- meaning, how the Turkish administration current administration in Turkey, is gonna back off from all the operations, Ergenekon, and the trials, and the people who have been imprisoned. it's gonna be very interesting to watch. Also, with what's going to happen with this extradition request from Turkey for Fethullah Gulen's extradition. Again, that's gonna come. All these things are gonna unfold within the next few weeks.

29:28 James: Well, this is fascinating. And i know you have to get going, so we'll let you go. But absolutely, just a ton of information here. So we will throw in some links for people who are just coming to this information for the first time, and hopefully you can find your feet in there. Sibel Edmonds, always a fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for your time today.

29:45 Sibel: Thank you. Good to be with you again.

29:47 [END}


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changed November 2, 2014